SharonAbella's blog

Live from the Berlin International Film Festival (Berlinale)  February 10, 2010

Interview with the world's most daring war artist, and filmmaker George Gittoes.

George Gittoes, originally from Australia, has traveled extensively to Nicaragua, Phillipines, Somalia, Sinai, Southern Lebanon, Israel, Gaza, Western Sahara, Cambodia, Laos, Mozambique, South Africa, Bosnia, Northern Ireland, Bougainville, Papua New Guinea, Tibet, Timor, Congo, Rwanda, Afghanistan, and Pakistan.

He has been described as a war artist and filmmaker, who uses painting, drawing, photography and video to demonstrate human tragedy, either as a result of war or natural disaster, and has been employed by the Austrailian government to travel with troops or peacekeepers.

In his latest film, "The Miscreants of Taliwood", George disguises himself as a Pashto, allowing him to reveal in depth footage about life in Pakistan, and the threat the Taliban poses on the art and film world. He shares more than any journalist or soldier could  ever imagine.

The film awaits a distributor,  please read the extremely informative interview below, and be on the look out for "The Miscreants of Taliwood"

 

 

Miscreants: holding a false or unorthodox religious belief,

Taliwood:  The film is Not depicting Hollywood, Nor Bollywood, but Taliban-wood

Peshawar: Pakistan's Hollywood

 

Remember, you read it on http://www.sharonabella.blogs.com/  and www.filmfestivals.com FIRST. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

QUESTION:

 

 

Q: SHARON ABELLA

 

How did the idea to make "Miscreants of Taliwood" come about?  Did you go to Pakistan with the intention of making an art film?

 

 

RESPONSE:

 

A:  GEORGE GITTOES

 

I've been involved in Pakistan and Afghanistan for more than twenty years.  I was actually in Afghanistan just before the Taliban was involved in 9/11.  As well as being a filmmaker and an artist, I do a lot of work with NGO's (Non-governmental Organizations), particularly to try and stop land mines.  So for years and years, I've been going to Pakistan, and I found that they had a big a land mine problem.  I don't know why they call land mines IED's, now, the Americans have changed the name to IED's. (Improvised explosive devices), but they are land mines. They are in the ground and blow cars and people up.  Anyway, I had been going to Afghanistan, and the Pakistani's asked me could I please come and show the world their problems.  So I started going to places based out of Peshawar, capital of the North-West Frontier Province, going to places like Bashur, Central Iraq, 356 kilometers North of Baghdad,  Parachinar, and took all of that work to the United Nations.  I had a big show at the United Nations, in Geneva.  I took a lot of these Pashtun people to it, mainly women mine victims, and we got them Prosthetic Clinics and mine clearance equipment.  The people of Pakistan's Tribal Belt, located in the Northwest of Pakistan, really love it when people show them any kind of altruism. Even now having made "Miscreants of Taliwood", I feel completely safe to go back into those areas. With this current situation, I knew I was probably the only Western, non-Pashtun person in the world, who could actually go in there and do something.   There are many films I could have made, I could have made a film about how the girls school's that are being bombed and closed down, but I couldn't resist the incredible parallel to someone who has worked in Cambodia under the Camargue and seen many repressive regimes.

 

 

 

QUESTION:   SHARON ABELLA

 

Talk about the Taliban burning down kiosks selling art films.

 

 

ANSWER:  GEORGE GITTOES

 

The Taliban are attacking all of the arts in Pakistan; music, film,  and even, Sufism, a distinct sect of Islam, which represents poetry and the love of music.  I made the hard choice to make THAT the subject of "Miscreants of Taliwood".   Originally, I thought that I would just follow these Pakistani filmmakers, how they are facing their battles and threats from the Taliban, (they are burning down kiosks that sell art films).  The Taliban have been so successful, so quickly, that there is only one film still being made, the Tariq Jamal one, (Tariq Jamal-is a famous Pashto actor). They still show those made for tv things which are done by state television. 

 

I got asked to to play Javed Musazai's brother. (Pashto actor), because I speak Pashtun.  It's remarkable, people think that Javed and I really are brothers, we look so much a like.  I call him my brother.  I have a joke with him, "now, when my mother sees this movie, she will say, "what was your father doing in Pakistan back in 1949?"  We are so much alike.  It was a logical choice to play Javed's brother. (During "Miscreants" they film a movie within a movie).  It was a serious film about how pointless it was for these vendettas to go on between families. (Pakistan can be a dangerous and violent society where families fight against families, clans against clans and religious groups against lesser religious groups.)   It was a plea for Pashtuns to not destroy themselves.  Right around the time I was working on the film with Tariq Jamal, in real life sequence that is when the Red Mosque happened. I went to Islamabad, and in the center of the city, the Taliban had antagonized the city, and were burning cd's and dvd's.  It  reminded me of the Nazi's, burning books, and it was extreme that this could be going on right next to the Government of the country.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

QUOTE: "All actions which are done for good puposes are allowed, those done for bad are forbidden."

 

The Taliban justify stopping films because they say The Koran forbids the reproduction, but then The Taliban say, BUT it's okay to use the reproduction of film and photography if it's for a good cause.  If you are showing a ten year old boy decapitating someone, you show what happens to spies, that's fine, if you show a funny little comedy about clowns with rabbits made for children, that's wrong.  "Shrek" is wrong.  The Taliban hates "Shrek".

 

 

 

 

 

 

Q: SHARON ABELLA

 

How did you gain permission to film in Pakistan?  What was required from you?  Were you often stopped for security checks?  Did anyone try to censor your work?  How long were you there 2007-?

 

 

ANSWER: GEORGE GITTOES

 

I didn't ask for permission.  No one tried to censor my work.  I have such a long history in Pakistan, working for good causes, that pretty much everyone knows who I am and what I do, because normally I am there filming the land mine situation that everyone wants to improve.  So no one in authority would have been upset.  Plus the fact that I absolutely passed for a Pashtun, as you see in the film.  So, the reality is in Peshawar, you couldn't walk out of your hotel and walk without being kidnapped and basically killed if you didn't pass for a Pashtun.  The Taliban think all foreigners are spies.  So, the couple of times when I got into trouble in the film, like in the beginning of the film where someone tried to take my camera off of me.  I had been happily filming all day, and they even thought I was a Taliban even, I decided  I needed to do a piece for the film facing the camera where I speak in English, and I actually thought I  picked a safe area to film in, but they must have had acute hearing and heard the English language, and that put me on the spot.   Up until that point I was fine, and even then, Javed and his brothers were there, and at the moment they understand film well enough, they let it go to the limit. One of the people who were against me, finally picked up a bit of my camera that broke off and gave it back to me, because I was so convincingly a Pashtun, and had Pashtun friends, that they just suddenly felt that I was okay.  Had I been Daniel Pearl, I wouldn't have survived another ten minutes.  It is impossibly dangerous for anyone who doesn't speak the language, and wears the garb, it would be impossible to survive another ten minutes in that environment.

 

 

 

 

 

 

QUESTION: SHARON ABELLA

 

Talk about the lack of freedom of speech, lack of freedom of creativity?

 

 

QUOTE FROM FILM: "There are those who believe in freedom of creative imagination and those who believe in prayer and afterlife."

 

 

 

ANSWER: GEORGE GITTOES

 

That's correct, and the people who want to bring this prayer and afterlife thing about are the minority. I hope my film shows the majority of people are like the DVD store owner, the courageous woman who is studying in school, and all the wonderful people who appear in the movie.  It's very much like a crazy fringe group, which is what The Taliban is.  (Fringe group: members of a group or political party holding extreme views).  The majority of Pakistani people are beautiful, loving, kind people.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

QUESTION:   SHARON ABELLA

 

When you were interviewing Moulana Gul Nazzeb in Dir, with 115 year old Sufi at the shrine, or in Tribal Belt, did you ever feel your life was in danger?  Which experience was the most dangerous?

 

 

 

ANSWER:  GEORGE GITTOES

 

No, certainly not with the Sufi.  I felt his magic aura protects both him and me, and everyone with him. It's terrible that he got shot, and some of the other Sufi's were killed.

That was the moment that really galvanized me that really made me go ahead with making the two dramas that I funded, when the Sufi was attacked.  Even if I am risking my own life, and I've got to stand up for imagination and freedom.  Seeing the Sufi get shot, really hurt me.  A lot of things hurt, but that really hurt.  No, the really dangerous moments don't happen on camera. When you are in really serious danger, you are not going to be pulling a camera out.  There was a day when we were editing the dramas, and I left my car with someone, normally I would drive my own car around.  So I jumped in a taxi, and it was one of these taxi's who just got looking after kidnapped victims.  Quite often from wealthier Pakistani families, (kidnapping is an industry, getting ransoms), suddenly I had a guy in the car next to me with a gun to my head, and I thought this is it, I've been kidnapped.  I didn't have a camera or anything with me.  Then I just started telling him how I often lecture and teach at Peshawar University and mentioned all the people that I know who they would revere and love within Islamic studies.  A lot of the people who are the greatest religious scholars in the country are my friends, and even The Taliban love them because they are such great scholars of the Koran.  They are not fundamentalists, but they are respected for their learning and wisdom about The Koran and Islam.  So finally, the guy just decided that he had made a big mistake, that some very imminent people could come down hard on them, for embarrassing them, by kidnapping me.  If the same guys had kidnapped a UN worker, he probably would have winded up being decapitated.   I have a level of support in Pakistan.  I am not frightened to go back to Pakistan, and to show the film at Peshawar University, and ride in the Tribal Belt.  

 

 

 

I am happy to go to Dir and argue the points in the film with Moulana Gul Nazzeb.  I know that I haven't done anything dishonest or wrong, and I haven't lied in this film.  If you haven't lied, they respect that.   They can't deny that their decapitation video is their's.   We have another imminent professor, who was telling us about that decapitation.  For example, as a good journalist, I realized well I can't leave this guy talking about something if he's only lied, it doesn't exist.  That was probably the most dangerous thing I had done in the movie, to go and get that dvd, because, the only other place to get it was in a complete Taliban controlled market. Imagine going to Hiter's headquarters in Nazi Germany,  It was absolutely controlled by Taliban and Al -Qaeda.   

 

 

 

 

 

QUESTION:  SHARON ABELLA

Tell us about the human rights suffering you witnessed?

What was the most shocking experience during your stay?

 

 

 

ANSWER:  GEORGE GITTOES

 

The worst experience was the 115 year old Sufi.  That side of Islamic countries seem so inconceivable. Not only have they got Al Qaeda, but they also have got a pseudo kind of war going on similar to what the Catholics and Protestants had in Northern Ireland.   I was next to that Mosque when it blew up, and I turned around and the details were gruesome.  More than 100 people were killed.  Clothes had been blown off young children.  I did not need to film that.  I've been in Rwanda, and I've seen so much death.  I just learned that it's not good for me psychologically to get my camera and film that much horror.  So, I thought it was much more effective to show the old man, who explained how he fought for a free Pakistan, and now we have, guns.  A lot of people ask me why I do what I do?  What's important for me is just to be there and show that you care.  Even if the film achieves nothing, the art achieves nothing, to meet people that kill innocent people who were just praying.   I'm in areas that are too dangerous for news reporters.  The BBC, CNN doesn't allow them into areas where I am.  It's too dangerous.  It's much more dangerous for me to be in a place like Peshawar alone, with no news agencies, or armed forces to protect you. 

 

 

 

*****QUESTION:  SHARON ABELLA

 

If the US is fighting a war on terror and the goal is to try and find Bin Laden, and if there is a general idea that he is located in the Tribal Belt in the NW region of Pakistan, why aren't American forces there, even though it's a violation of Pakistan's sovereignty?   In film there was mention that America shouldn't have gone into Iraq, but instead, the Tribal Belt.  Why aren't there American forces there?

 

*****ANSWER:   GEORGE GITTOES

 

Well, this is absolutely it. The people who attacked America  in 9/11.  Bin Laden's place was always in the Tribal Belt. He happened to be in Afghanistan at the time of 9/11.  The CIA trained Bin Laden because they were friends.  That's where the real problem is, but it's incredibly complex.  The head of Pakistani military used to be the head of RSI, which is Pakistan's version of the CIA, and The Taliban, as well as AL-Qaeda being assisted and created by the CIA, The Taliban itself was created by Pakistani intelligence, by RSI.

 

Really the Taliban take that from Afghanistan was a Pakistani invasion of Afghanistan.  So when the American forces are arriving in The Taliban and they force them back into Pakistan, they are just going home.  They are mainly Pakistani and from Uzbekistan, majority of soldiers in the Taliban are not Afghans, and so, I see Pakistan being the biggest threat to world peace in the world. Not only have they got the atomic bomb, but they share a border with Iran, India, China, in a sense with Russia, America is already in Afghanistan, and their ports are all on the Arabian Sea, and the Government of Pakistan, unfortunately, doesn't have the leader they wanted to, Benazir Bhutto.  Asif Ali Azrdari, Benazir's husband, who was never popular, and still isn't, they used to call him Mr. 20 %.  They see him as corrupt. It's just a very difficult position.  If there are military acts against The Taliban and Al-Qaeda, in a sense, they're acting against their own children, they created them.   In my movie, you can really see the complexity of it at The Red Mosque.  Soldiers ranges, just like in the American Army is one step down from being a special force.  Special forces are very elite. At The Red Mosque, it ranges,  as a leader, a normal soldier were completely on the side of the people in the Mosque, Al-Qaeda and Taliban, even though they are part of the Pakistani army.  They saw me with my beard and everything else, my Pashtun assistant.  They sheltered us, because they wanted us to show what a terrible way intelligence assistance the special forces were able to capture the five of us inside the mosque.  These guys dressed up as Pashtuns, as Mujahideen (a person fighting for freedom), and they went in and said, "we're going to show you a secret way out.  The army itself was not in favor of any of it.  To them the heroes were the guys inside the Mosque.  Within about  a month or so, all the special forces men who had done that operation were killed. Taliban and Al-Qaeda came into the most fortified fort in Pakistan, normal soldiers at the gates let them in. They killed them within their own military establishment, within the hardest place of the Pakistani military. They wanted to send out a message that a lot of the rest of the military would have agreed with, which was, "you shouldn't cooperate with Americans against the Taliban and Al-Qaeda."  That's how incredibly complex it is.

 

 

 

*****QUESTION:  SHARON ABELLA

Tell us about the Tribal Belt?  Home of Al Qaeda?  Do you think you have an idea where Bin Laden is?

 

*****ANSWER:  GEORGE GITTOES

 

Now as for Bin Laden, I was fascinated, just at the time of the American elections, George Bush, and what is now President Obama said, that Bin Laden was in Bajaur. This was on the news in America.  No one can go into Bajaur. Bajaur is a stronghold now. It used to be Taliban and Al Qaeda. Well, Bajaur was a place that I've done a lot of field work there for the land mines. The people of Bajaur, the leaders, the tribal chiefs, love me.  So, I organized for a couple of tribal chiefs to come in, not to be someone who was curious to see if Bin Laden was there, but because I was concerned for them.  The Red Cross could now work in Bajaur, because even when the chiefs came in, they were killed.  I was worried about the people, the young children, who had their feet blown off by the land mines.  I went into Bajaur because, I wanted to organize a social warfare organization.  It was incredibly risky.  I am Austrailian.  We went in and had a successful meeting with all the others and I had to go through a lot of Taliban, Al Qaeda checks to get in there.  If they had figured out who I was, I would have been carried out with a head covered bag.  At the end of the meeting, I said, so Bush and Obama are both saying that Bin Laden is here, so, what truth is there in that? They looked at me and said, "George, you are famous, and everyone knows you're here. In other words, I thought I had come in secretly, but the Taliban, Al-Qaeda, everyone knew I was there.   If someone with a profile of  Bin Laden were here, we would all know. There would be no way it could be kept secret because they are such a closed society.  Here, everyone knows everyone.  Every family is connected and interconnected.  So he is not there.  What I learned from that is

Bajaur is the most extreme and the most fundamentalist place.   You couldn't the secret of Bin Laden's whereabouts hidden in Bajaur, than there is no where in Pakistan that you could keep it either.  Most people in Bajaur, and I think they would know, because they are talking to people,  their theory, is that Bin Laden is definitely in Somalia or Yemen.  Bin Laden is originally a Yemeni.  He's not a Saudi, he's from Yemen.  His family are Yemeni's.  Yemeni people who have made a lot of money in Saudi Arabia, but they are completely Yemeni tribe.  I've been to Yemen and I've also worked in Somalia.  So, if he is still alive, it would be too hard keeping him from Yemen, but I think the safest bet would be that he is in Somalia.   That's where the logic of President Obama who is saying, "we have to fight this war in Afghanistan, just as a way of protecting American fear.  If that's true, than the logic is why isn't America in Somalia?  Because Somalia is now a completely controlled country and run by Al-Qaeda.  If you look at these hijackings, the training has been completed in Somalia. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

QUESTION :  SHARON ABELLA

 

 

Talk about the death of Benazir Bhutto  9/21/53-12/27/07

 

Do you think it was a conspiracy?   Did it come as a surprise to you?

 

QUOTE:  "Just walking outside and being a woman is enough to have you shot dead."

 

 

 

ANSWER: GEORGE GITTOES

 

 

Very sad. She was in Peshawar the day before she was killed there, and after that I've been really good friends with a close friend of hers.  Had I known I could have done a last interview with Benazir Bhutto.  The thing with Benazir, I saw that speech, and although she had a couple of times when she was in peril and she didn't do a great job, and everyone recognized it, she was really good for that country, the most positive way imaginable. She was totally altruistic, she had people behind her.  She was so good for women.  Women are enslaved there.   It was just so tragic to see her killed.   The controversy as to who, why, and how she was killed will go on forever.  Some people accuse her husband, who had the most to gain from it.  Pakistan is a country of many contradications, people have just become addicted to conspiracy stories.   There are a lot of conspiracy stories about her assassination.  The funny thing is is that the government was trying to say that she didn't die from a bullet, even though there were pictures of it,  they are saying that she died because she fell over and hit her head. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

QUESTION:  SHARON ABELLA

Tell us about the human rights suffering you witnessed?

What was the most shocking experience during your stay?

 

Talk about the contradictions of religious beliefs vs. behaviours/actions: war, murder, suicide bombers, homosexuality, women's suffrage

 

 

 

ANSWER:  GEORGE GITTOES

 

The worst experience was the 115 year old Sufi.  That side of Islamic countries seem so inconceivable. Not only have they got Al Qaeda, but they also have got a pseudo kind of war going on similar to what the Catholics and Protestants had in Northern Ireland.   I was next to that Mosque when it blew up, and I turned around and the details were gruesome.  More than 100 people were killed.  Clothes had been blown off young children.  I did not need to film that.  I've been in Rwanda, and I've seen so much death.  I just learned that it's not good for me psychologically to get my camera and film that much horror.  So, I thought it was much more effective to show the old man, who explained how he fought for a free Pakistan, and now we have, guns.  A lot of people ask me why I do what I do?  What's important for me is just to be there and show that you care.  Even if the film achieves nothing, the art achieves nothing, to meet people that kill innocent people who were just praying.   I'm in areas that are too dangerous for news reporters.  The BBC, CNN doesn't allow them into areas where I am.  It's too dangerous.  It's much more dangerous for me to be in a place like Peshawar alone, with no news agencies, or armed forces to protect you. 

 

 

 

 

QUESTION:  SHARON ABELLA

 

 In all of your travels, where have you felt the most in danger?

 

ANSWER:  GEORGE GITTOES

 

The list is incredibly long, but, once when I was taking photographs someone had said, if you even think of taking a photograph, I'll kill you.   I thought they have all seen me taking photographs, so they are going to kill me, so I'm going to go on taking them.   They were worried they would be accused of war crimes,  and that if my photos got out, if what I had recorded of what they were doing got out, someday they would be made accountable for.   But, I'm going to back to Afghanistan in April.  A lot of people accuse me of being an adrenaline junkie,  you feel very insulted by that.  They don't go the hard way to try and change things.

 

Another dangerous time, was when it was this time of year,  I was trying to get from Kabul, Afghanistan to  Mazar-e Sharif,  and I got stuck.  I spent two weeks stuck in a tunnel digging my way out, I had to sleep on the snow.  I still have arthritis.  This has nothing to do with adreneline.  It's a cruel, hard, difficult life out there.  Why do I continue to do it?  The world is in a very precarious position.  If they stop making films like "Miscreants", then it means people are uniformed.  The film will be shown at Museum of Modern Art, and I will be given talks and lectures all across America.  I get to meet people in Washington, Military Generals.  I'm able to get to places, people in military uniforms are unable to go see.  I'm able to be an advocate for the old man in the Mosque.  I can tell the truth.  People in uniform will never get the truth out of the local people.  I keep going, not because I'm excited by danger or anything, I hate boring jobs.

 

 

QUESTION:  SHARON ABELLA

 

Have you had any trouble having film distributed?  Was it seen as too controversial for some markets?  If so, which ones?

 

ANSWER:   GEORGE GITTOES

 

The film has been on television in Austrailia.  I am working hard on trying to get distribution. I really think people need to see this film.

I see this film as a bridge between martyrs, and it takes you into their world.

We don't have a distributor yet.  We have RCM agency trying to get the film distributed through the US.

 

QUESTION:   SHARON ABELLA

 

Who are your favorite film directors, and/or journalists, movie stars? 

 

ANSWER:  GEORGE GITTOES

 

I just love popular culture.  I like your Johnny Depp's, your Angelina Jolie's.  My favorite film is "Pirates of the Carribean".   I'm a big fan of comedy.  I like Jim Carrey, Jack Black,  Bill Murray,  "Stripes'.  I like comedy.  When you can laugh you are human.

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